(del676)
2004-12-18, 12:05:10
http://www.gamers-depot.com/ed/ati_open/001.htm
Dear ATI,
2004 has proven to be quite a fast-paced ride for both you and your competition – certainly, the available GPU prowess is very good and the entire PC hardware industry has a lot to thank you for – certainly, ATI is a true pioneer in the world of graphics.
What concerns us, however, is what appears to be a recent pattern of flip-flopping on technical issues as well as a stark inability to deliver to the masses what you claim to be “shipping in volume”.
First you “launch” the X800 XT Platinum Edition – a product that’s now affectionately referred to as “Phantom Edition” – you send out a few review boards to the press and a couple to a selected OEM and our readers still have yet to find them in stores or online etailers in volume. We understand that high-end GPUs are low yields for any GPU maker – that’s just the way it is, so why not come clean with folks and admit that you’re not able to build as many as you originally projected?
Next up is the “launch” of the X700 XT; a product that was squarely aimed at displacing the NVIDIA 6600GT card even though it lost in most of the benchmarks. Again, we saw a few selected publications getting review boards, but still have yet to see them in any retailer or etailer. We're also now learning that you've cancelled the X700 XT altogether.
More recently, you “launched” the X850XT Platinum Edition – yet again we see a very limited amount of reviews and have our doubts that you’ll be able to ship them in VOLUME any time soon. If you can’t even get as many review boards as you would’ve liked, then why should we believe that the amounts you can ship would by any different?
We find this rather ironic in light of that fact that your own Mr. Bergman said at a launch event in 04’ that “ATI will not announce products unless we can ship them within 30-days” – so what gives with that?
We feel HardOCP's conclusion on its recent X800 XL sums up many or our concerns for your ability to deliver product:
"Although we do have to add that we have currently lost faith in ATI to actually deliver the retail goods to the public. Hopefully we did not just publish another evaluation of product that you will never be able to buy at or below its MSRP, if you are able to buy it at all…or have a PCI-Express motherboard to put it in."
Some of the other quotes are:
Hot Hardware
"As long as ATi can deliver the Radeon X800 XL in meaningful quantities, and board partners sell their cards at or below MSRP which was traditionally the case, we think ATi has a real winner in their product line-up."
Tech Report
"ATI says the Radeon X800 XL should be shipping in the next couple of weeks. Let's hope they can keep the supply of these cards flowing freely."
PC Perspective
"The question that remains though is the all important question of availability. The 6600GT and 6800GT are for sale all over the place; if the X800 XL never shows, then that leaves the windows wide open for NVIDIA's profits. If the X800 XL floods the channel soon, I think you'll either see the prices on the NVIDIA cards falling or an over supply of their cards in the channel. Only time (in a matter of weeks, hopefully) will be able to tell."
Firing Squad
"Of course, also keep in mind ATI’s production issues they’ve faced with X700 XT and X800 XT/X800 XT PE. ATI has not had a stellar track record as of late when it comes to delivering products. When you factor this in with the X800 XL’s brand new (and untested) 0.11-micron R430 core, you never know what might happen."
Lastly on this subject is our own investigation that showed many of the system builders and retail channels are having sever allocation issues on your products.
ATI – the only company brave enough to take both sides of every issue and defend them both
Next issue many of our readers are concerned with is what appears to be flip-flopping on issues on such a grand scale that even John Kerry would be proud.
If your business plan is to really take a “wait and see” approach then why not just admit to that? The recent hotspot on this list is NVIDIA’s SLI; a technology that has already proven it provides best-of-class 3D performance – something your own Richard Huddy referred to as “Crazy”. Now we’re hearing you’re working on Multi-rendering? Flip-Flop.
A couple of years ago, NVIDIA launched its FX line of cards which did use a dual-slot design because of the cooling requirements it had. We heard time and time again from folks within ATI that dual-slot designs are a bad idea – now your own X850 XT PE uses a similar design.
You recently stated, in regards to mobile PCI Express that:
“While announcing a new technology creates excitement in the marketplace, we always prefer to approach in a more pragmatic fashion - basically, launch a new technology when you have products available to support it.”
How many Axiom notebooks are available? You’ve already announced the technology for it.
Additionally, in a presentation you gave earlier this year to the press, it stated that PCI-E bridge chips:
• Adds extra point of failure (multiple ASIC/dies/MCM packaging)
• Increases power-on delay
• Adds additional latency
• Adds additional cost
• Adds BIOS complexity
• Key PCI Express features lost when using a bridge:
• Power management
• Isochronous traffic (prioritization of different traffic types toprevent dropped audio/video frames etc.)
• Use of the full 4GB bandwidth (ie: video editing)
Now we know that you’re getting ready to use a bridge chip in the upcoming Rialto chip.
Here’s a quick recap that outlines a few of your “wait and see" approach – on the left are NVIDIA initiatives on the right-hand side is your response to them.
NVIDIA ATI
The Way It's Meant To Be Played Get in the Game
Dawn Ruby
MXM Axiom
SLI Multi-Rendering
TurboCache HyperMemory
First with Dual-Slot Design X850 XT PE
Yeah, we know HyperMemory was announced before TurboCache - but its a software band-aid solution that still has yet to materialize. Where is it? In fact, sources tell us that the only reason you announced HyperMemory so early was that you got wind of TurboCache from the OEMs a few months ago. Can you clarify your stance on this?
Time and time again your company makes it blatantly obvious of your wait-and-see approach – We feel these issues would be easier to understand if you started – rather than immediately bashing them – to say “We’re still not sure about that unproven technology, but if it works out well for NVIDIA we’ll do it” – at least that’d be full disclosure.
In the end, we’d like to see ATI fully discuss these issues as to help clear up the air. We feel the points we bring up are valid and deserving of your immediate attention. The entire industry appreciates the contributions ATI has brought about but we cannot let you run-amuck just for the sole sake of making sure you’re winning in a few benchmarks.
If you're a reader interested in asking ATI more questions, feel free to email us your comments to: feedback at gamers-depot.com
We'll compile them for a future article.
Dear ATI,
2004 has proven to be quite a fast-paced ride for both you and your competition – certainly, the available GPU prowess is very good and the entire PC hardware industry has a lot to thank you for – certainly, ATI is a true pioneer in the world of graphics.
What concerns us, however, is what appears to be a recent pattern of flip-flopping on technical issues as well as a stark inability to deliver to the masses what you claim to be “shipping in volume”.
First you “launch” the X800 XT Platinum Edition – a product that’s now affectionately referred to as “Phantom Edition” – you send out a few review boards to the press and a couple to a selected OEM and our readers still have yet to find them in stores or online etailers in volume. We understand that high-end GPUs are low yields for any GPU maker – that’s just the way it is, so why not come clean with folks and admit that you’re not able to build as many as you originally projected?
Next up is the “launch” of the X700 XT; a product that was squarely aimed at displacing the NVIDIA 6600GT card even though it lost in most of the benchmarks. Again, we saw a few selected publications getting review boards, but still have yet to see them in any retailer or etailer. We're also now learning that you've cancelled the X700 XT altogether.
More recently, you “launched” the X850XT Platinum Edition – yet again we see a very limited amount of reviews and have our doubts that you’ll be able to ship them in VOLUME any time soon. If you can’t even get as many review boards as you would’ve liked, then why should we believe that the amounts you can ship would by any different?
We find this rather ironic in light of that fact that your own Mr. Bergman said at a launch event in 04’ that “ATI will not announce products unless we can ship them within 30-days” – so what gives with that?
We feel HardOCP's conclusion on its recent X800 XL sums up many or our concerns for your ability to deliver product:
"Although we do have to add that we have currently lost faith in ATI to actually deliver the retail goods to the public. Hopefully we did not just publish another evaluation of product that you will never be able to buy at or below its MSRP, if you are able to buy it at all…or have a PCI-Express motherboard to put it in."
Some of the other quotes are:
Hot Hardware
"As long as ATi can deliver the Radeon X800 XL in meaningful quantities, and board partners sell their cards at or below MSRP which was traditionally the case, we think ATi has a real winner in their product line-up."
Tech Report
"ATI says the Radeon X800 XL should be shipping in the next couple of weeks. Let's hope they can keep the supply of these cards flowing freely."
PC Perspective
"The question that remains though is the all important question of availability. The 6600GT and 6800GT are for sale all over the place; if the X800 XL never shows, then that leaves the windows wide open for NVIDIA's profits. If the X800 XL floods the channel soon, I think you'll either see the prices on the NVIDIA cards falling or an over supply of their cards in the channel. Only time (in a matter of weeks, hopefully) will be able to tell."
Firing Squad
"Of course, also keep in mind ATI’s production issues they’ve faced with X700 XT and X800 XT/X800 XT PE. ATI has not had a stellar track record as of late when it comes to delivering products. When you factor this in with the X800 XL’s brand new (and untested) 0.11-micron R430 core, you never know what might happen."
Lastly on this subject is our own investigation that showed many of the system builders and retail channels are having sever allocation issues on your products.
ATI – the only company brave enough to take both sides of every issue and defend them both
Next issue many of our readers are concerned with is what appears to be flip-flopping on issues on such a grand scale that even John Kerry would be proud.
If your business plan is to really take a “wait and see” approach then why not just admit to that? The recent hotspot on this list is NVIDIA’s SLI; a technology that has already proven it provides best-of-class 3D performance – something your own Richard Huddy referred to as “Crazy”. Now we’re hearing you’re working on Multi-rendering? Flip-Flop.
A couple of years ago, NVIDIA launched its FX line of cards which did use a dual-slot design because of the cooling requirements it had. We heard time and time again from folks within ATI that dual-slot designs are a bad idea – now your own X850 XT PE uses a similar design.
You recently stated, in regards to mobile PCI Express that:
“While announcing a new technology creates excitement in the marketplace, we always prefer to approach in a more pragmatic fashion - basically, launch a new technology when you have products available to support it.”
How many Axiom notebooks are available? You’ve already announced the technology for it.
Additionally, in a presentation you gave earlier this year to the press, it stated that PCI-E bridge chips:
• Adds extra point of failure (multiple ASIC/dies/MCM packaging)
• Increases power-on delay
• Adds additional latency
• Adds additional cost
• Adds BIOS complexity
• Key PCI Express features lost when using a bridge:
• Power management
• Isochronous traffic (prioritization of different traffic types toprevent dropped audio/video frames etc.)
• Use of the full 4GB bandwidth (ie: video editing)
Now we know that you’re getting ready to use a bridge chip in the upcoming Rialto chip.
Here’s a quick recap that outlines a few of your “wait and see" approach – on the left are NVIDIA initiatives on the right-hand side is your response to them.
NVIDIA ATI
The Way It's Meant To Be Played Get in the Game
Dawn Ruby
MXM Axiom
SLI Multi-Rendering
TurboCache HyperMemory
First with Dual-Slot Design X850 XT PE
Yeah, we know HyperMemory was announced before TurboCache - but its a software band-aid solution that still has yet to materialize. Where is it? In fact, sources tell us that the only reason you announced HyperMemory so early was that you got wind of TurboCache from the OEMs a few months ago. Can you clarify your stance on this?
Time and time again your company makes it blatantly obvious of your wait-and-see approach – We feel these issues would be easier to understand if you started – rather than immediately bashing them – to say “We’re still not sure about that unproven technology, but if it works out well for NVIDIA we’ll do it” – at least that’d be full disclosure.
In the end, we’d like to see ATI fully discuss these issues as to help clear up the air. We feel the points we bring up are valid and deserving of your immediate attention. The entire industry appreciates the contributions ATI has brought about but we cannot let you run-amuck just for the sole sake of making sure you’re winning in a few benchmarks.
If you're a reader interested in asking ATI more questions, feel free to email us your comments to: feedback at gamers-depot.com
We'll compile them for a future article.